Brought back from the old forums. Post a team of 6 or a team of 8, and people here will rate your team, and give you ideas on how to make it better.
This team is without a lord, by the way. It is also not my team. It's someone else's team I'm helping put together.
Nomad [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20
HP [1/0%]: 32.00
POW [2/20%]: 20.00
SKL [1/10%]: 16.00
SPD [2/10%]: 20.00
DEF [0/0%]: 9.00
RES [0/0%]: 8.00
LCK [0/0%]: 10.00
Pursuit/Impale
Standard offense Nomad. Can use impale on threatening peg mages. Can also destroy magic tanks such as mystics.
Mystic [Brute]
Stats at level 20
HP [2/10%]: 40.00
POW [2/20%]: 20.00
SKL [1/10%]: 16.00
SPD [0/0%]: 12.00
DEF [0/0%]: 8.00
RES [1/0%]: 17.00
LCK [0/0%]: 8.00
Aurora/Impale
Standard one-sided Mystic. Can also use impale on peg mages if needed. It's weak to physicals, but...
Raider [Brute]
Stats at level 20
HP [2/5%]: 40.00
POW [2/15%]: 20.00
SKL [0/5%]: 15.00
SPD [0/0%]: 11.00
DEF [2/0%]: 17.00
RES [0/15%]: 8.00
LCK [0/0%]: 8.00
Counter/Nihil
That's what this is for. This will crush physicals that would otherwise threaten that mystic. Also, those mages that threaten it can easily be dealt with by the mystic.
Templar [Bulky]
Stats at level 20
HP [2/5%]: 34.00
POW [2/20%]: 19.00
SKL [0/0%]: 12.00
SPD [2/15%]: 18.00
DEF [0/0%]: 16.00
RES [0/0%]: 10.00
LCK [0/0%]: 9.00
Pursuit/Counter
This will pursuit any speed dumps, and do reliably well unless it's against a mystic. It also can't be ORKO'd in any way unless critical'd. It's weak to magic wrath, but those are almost unseen. And it helps especially in tournament play because there's no forges.
Lunar Kn. [Brave]
Stats at level 20
HP [2/0%]: 32.00
POW [2/20%]: 15.00
SKL [0/0%]: 10.00
SPD [2/15%]: 25.00
DEF [0/0%]: 8.00
RES [0/0%]: 13.00
LCK [0/5%]: 14.00
Pursuit/Nihil
A pursuit mounted mage that'll make mincemeat out of counter tanks, and has Nihil as secondary in case an opposing nomad with impale shows up.
Cleric [Bulky]
Stats at level 20
HP [2/20%]: 40.00
POW [0/0%]: 16.00
SKL [0/0%]: 11.00
SPD [2/0%]: 14.00
DEF [2/20%]: 15.00
RES [0/0%]: 16.00
LCK [0/0%]: 11.00
Nihil/Counter(or aurora)
Token bulky healer. Can't be ORKO'd in any way, shape, or form, especially if Nihil stays active.
I composed this team for Sleepymage based off of the units he used in
this battle
Also another note, there is no lord. Still tryin to figure out which one of those units (except cleric) would make the most out of being lorded.
honestly, I'm not the best on unpromo builds lol
[8:13:48 PM] Speedy - IX: so long as they take at least 2 hits to kill they should be fine
[8:13:50 PM] Speedy - IX: imo
[8:14:01 PM] Speedy - IX: no ORKOable units
[8:14:51 PM] Speedy - IX: @Mystic
[8:15:27 PM] Speedy - IX: 17res isn't gonna catch much these days 'cept res dumps lolars and mages (the class)
[8:15:39 PM] Speedy - IX: won't rora well built units
[8:17:40 PM] Speedy - IX: the lunar seems very awkward, it doesn't need the lck so much as it does hp/res
[8:17:55 PM] Speedy - IX: and nothing really needs 25spd in unpromo
[8:18:34 PM] Speedy - IX: Cleric is fine
Overall: 6/10
Me and Speedy spoke about it in private. Some things needed altering. Plus we decided the Templar should be lorded, as it's more newbie-friendly than a Nomad lord.
Templar [Bulky]
Stats at level 20
HP [2/20%]: 40.00
POW [2/20%]: 19.00
SKL [0/0%]: 12.00
SPD [2/10%]: 17.00
DEF [0/0%]: 16.00
RES [2/20%]: 16.00
LCK [0/0%]: 9.00
Pursuit/Counter (or Aurora)
A bulky pursuiter. Aurora can be used, but it's highly unlikely it'll be needed.
Nomad [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20
HP [1/0%]: 32.00
POW [2/20%]: 20.00
SKL [1/10%]: 16.00
SPD [2/10%]: 20.00
DEF [0/0%]: 9.00
RES [0/0%]: 8.00
LCK [0/0%]: 10.00
Pursuit/Impale
Unchanged.
Mystic [Brute]
Stats at level 20
HP [2/10%]: 40.00
POW [2/20%]: 20.00
SKL [0/0%]: 13.00
SPD [0/0%]: 12.00
DEF [0/0%]: 8.00
RES [2/10%]: 20.00
LCK [0/0%]: 8.00
Aurora/Impale
Dropped skill for more Res.
Raider [Bulky]
Stats at level 20
HP [2/5%]: 40.00
POW [2/15%]: 20.00
SKL [0/0%]: 12.00
SPD [0/0%]: 11.00
DEF [2/15%]: 20.00
RES [0/5%]: 8.00
LCK [0/0%]: 8.00
Counter/Nihil
Dropped skill for more Def.
Lunar Kn. [Defencive]
Stats at level 20
HP [2/5%]: 34.00
POW [2/20%]: 15.00
SKL [0/0%]: 10.00
SPD [2/10%]: 24.00
DEF [0/0%]: 8.00
RES [0/5%]: 16.00
LCK [0/0%]: 11.00
Pursuit/Nihil
More aurora-proof and OHKO proof. Still needs to switch to Nihil to avoid Impale.
Cleric [Bulky]
Stats at level 20
HP [2/20%]: 40.00
POW [0/0%]: 16.00
SKL [0/0%]: 11.00
SPD [2/0%]: 14.00
DEF [2/20%]: 15.00
RES [0/0%]: 16.00
LCK [0/0%]: 11.00
Nihil/Aurora (or Counter)
Unchanged.
Mystic -> Clairvoyant [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 60.00
POW [1/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/15%]: 28.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [2/20%]: 22.00
RES [1/10%]: 29.00
LCK [0/0%]: 13.00
Assailant -> Defender [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/10%]: 60.00
POW [1/5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 16.00
SPD [0/0%]: 17.00
DEF [2/17.5%]: 23.00
RES [2/7.5%]: 30.00
LCK [0/0%]: 11.00
Warder -> Guardian [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/5%]: 56.00
POW [1/15%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [2/20%]: 22.00
RES [2/0%]: 29.00
LCK [0/0%]: 11.00
Cleric -> Bishop [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/10%]: 50.00
POW [2/7.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [1/15%]: 22.00
RES [2/7.5%]: 30.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Cleric -> Sage [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/10%]: 50.00
POW [2/7.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [0/0%]: 18.00
DEF [1/15%]: 22.00
RES [2/7.5%]: 30.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Cleric -> Druid [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/10%]: 50.00
POW [2/7.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 17.00
SPD [0/0%]: 18.00
DEF [1/15%]: 23.00
RES [2/7.5%]: 30.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Permabuff.
Weak to physicals. My mages will be afraid of facing those, though, since they have 37 res units staring directly at them.
Also weak to other DT units. Can also be hit/run'd a lot due to the lack of mounts.
Maybe if there was 30 def units mixed in, it could be feared a lot more.
6/10
Also, you didn't rate my team; either one.
*clears throat*
Here.
MMM used a Revive! It's super effective!
Now that's out of the way, here's my first (almost legitimate!) attempt at making something that should resemble a (competitive, of course) promo team. Yes, it may have to be changed a tiny bit (probably every single unit's builds and the whole concept behind the team assuming it exists) but as of now, this is what I have
Adept -> War Mage [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 52.00
POW [2/10%]: 30.00
SKL [2/10%]: 27.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [0/20%]: 30.00
RES [2/20%]: 25.00
LCK [0/0%]: 14.00
Counter/Aurora or Nihil?
MY LORD! She's supposed to tank everything and counter stuff, especially glassy physical pursuiters. Survives everything apart from WTA crits and 2 non-crits regardless, if my calculations are correct.
I'm also considering an alternative set with defensive nature focusing on both avoid and tankiness just to cause pure utter rage, but I'm unsure whether I should be that cruel.
Archer -> Sniper [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 42.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/7.5%]: 30.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 13.00
LCK [0/5%]: 20.00
Pursuit or Wrath?/Impale
Semi-avoidy bow user for annihilation of avoidy pegs. Except it's probably going to have Wrath/Pursuit over Insight given that pegs will probably be Speed/Luck based anyway, hence the stats.
Obviously not meant to survive more than one hit.
Troubadour -> War Medic [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 40.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 20.00
SPD [1/5%]: 27.00
DEF [0/0%]: 12.00
RES [0/0%]: 14.00
LCK [2/20%]: 34.00
Insight/Pursuit
Because who needs hitmaster classes when you have a Troub promote? The only units this set won't hit is other 34-35 luck units...
Obviously also not meant to survive more than one hit but with that avoid and luck...
Cleric -> Bishop [Careful]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/17.5%]: 58.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [1/5%]: 24.00
SPD [1/0%]: 24.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 25.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Nihil/Aurora
I've made this set before I heard that Nihil is supposed to suck, okay...
But yeah, only skill that will activate against him with Nihil active is Insight. Or Twins. He can also actually survive Braves for a change compared to my other units. Other than that healing power is useful as always and he's my main one for that.
Dark Kn. -> Wraith [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/20%]: 60.00
POW [2/0%]: 27.00
SKL [0/0%]: 15.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [1/0%]: 28.00
RES [2/20%]: 23.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00
Counter/Nihil
Meant for aggressive rescuedropping (
I have explored dragon territory, indeed). I remember being unsure whether to go Shaman or Dark Knight -> Wraith but I ended up going with this. If I'm not mistaken it will take 3 hits to kill unless crit, in which case it takes 2 hits to die which still isn't bad I suppose - haven't done Pursuit calcs though so I could be wrong...
Lastly, and speaking of dragons:
Wyv. Rider -> Wyv. Knight [Rogue]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 21.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 29.00
DEF [0/5%]: 28.00
RES [0/0%]: 9.00
LCK [0/0%]: 10.00
Pursuit/Counter
I'm no longer sure whether this was supposed to survive a magic pursuit because it's pretty much speed capped already and peg mages are weak anyway... I probably just thought that there's no point investing in skill, res or luck over HP, and that 60/28 helps tanking bows...
Would definitely consider using Ward and Shield, maybe Fortune on my War Medic as well if opposing troubs ever become a problem. Other than that I plan Sniper h/r, possibly also with Fortune buff. Other than THAT I'll just pray to the RNG god that my Lord owns the crap out of everyone - it has happened before...
Alright, first off, your lord.
I'm not a fan of war mages, but if you're going to use one, I highly suggest to raise the HP value a bit higher, so it can survive more things. Mainly the magic units espcially.
Adept -> War Mage [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [2/10%]: 30.00
SKL [0/12.5%]: 26.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [2/7.5%]: 27.00
RES [2/20%]: 25.00
LCK [0/0%]: 14.00
Its defense is high enough that it's still going to counter most units it's supposed to counter. But at least it'll be taking hits better on the magical side. And if you do come across the one oddball that has defense investment, you have other ways to deal with it other than relying on counter.
The sniper has to survive braves. Braves are everywhere in **/20 play, and players will take a free reliable no-counter kill when they see one. Counters are also a threat, and having miniscule HP and defense means you'll be one-rounded a lot more reliably, usually won't even be needing 2 counter attacks.
There's 2 ways you can do this, hitmaster or pursuit crits, But seeing you have a Troub promote already, I'd be leaning towards the latter.
Archer -> Sniper [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 54.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [0/2.5%]: 26.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 13.00
LCK [0/0%]: 18.00
Troub promote is fine... but I honestly suggest making a Valkyrie instead, because of something I'll explain later. But for now,
Troubadour -> Valkyrie [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/0%]: 42.00
POW [2/20%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 21.00
SPD [0/5%]: 27.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 15.00
LCK [2/15%]: 32.00
Bishop... I don't know what you want from it. If you want it to tank, I suggest the standard 54 HP/25 Defense/25 Res build. But seeing that you don't have a single offensive magic user, I highly suggest going with this:
Cleric -> Bishop [Rogue]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 48.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/12.5%]: 26.00
SPD [2/5%]: 27.00
DEF [0/0%]: 15.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Survives any and all auroras with flash equipped, even with pursuit on. Survives braves, and pursuits things it's supposed to be pursuiting. Also, it's the closest you can get to an offensive cleric bishop without going full-on dodge. (if you want a full-on dodge cleric bishop, ask me and I'll post it)
Wraith is fine as is, at least for bait. Though I'd go with 27 defense and 21 res just so it can cap Pow.
Wyvern could use a bit of work. You want it to pursuit counter, I have a decent build for you to use.
Wyv. Rider -> Wyv. Master [Rogue]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [0/12.5%]: 26.00
SPD [2/5%]: 26.00
DEF [0/2.5%]: 28.00
RES [0/0%]: 8.00
LCK [0/0%]: 9.00
First off, you'll notice that this is a wyvern master, not a wyvern knight. Mainly because, you'll have all 4 physical types covered. Now, i could've changed the troub to Holy Kn and give it lances and leave this as wyvern knight, but that would cause some issues as it's very weak to Halberds, and would require more support than this team already needs. So I'd make this much easier change.
Second off, I buffed it's skill to 26, because it really needs the hit rate, and most snipers that will want to kill this thing often run Wrath as secondary.
I lowered the speed to 26 because no one's killing this wyvern with E-ranks unless they have E-Rank sharps, which is unseen unless they want to take up a weapon slot over something more important, or they are Speedy-IX (no offense lol). And plus it still can pursuit things they should be pursuiting.
Overall, the team needs a lot of work. It does fine in unpromo given unpromote meta, but promote meta is vastly different, and the tactics you were using before in unpromote won't fly (no pun intended) here in promote play. The lack of reliable offense will hurt you a lot in the long run. You'll want at least one more unit who can pursuit, most definitely a magic user.
4/10
(05-19-2015, 12:57 AM)Falaflame Wrote: [ -> ]Cleric -> Bishop [Rogue]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 48.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/12.5%]: 26.00
SPD [2/5%]: 27.00
DEF [0/0%]: 15.00
RES [0/0%]: 21.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Survives any and all auroras with flash equipped, even with pursuit on. Survives braves, and pursuits things it's supposed to be pursuiting. Also, it's the closest you can get to an offensive cleric bishop without going full-on dodge. (if you want a full-on dodge cleric bishop, ask me and I'll post it)
Actually, 2*(atk-def)=2*(39-15)=48.
Given that it doesn't survive a Brave Axe like this, should I put an extra point on HP from Skill or Speed?
Anyway thanks for feedback. I must have messed with this quite a bit until now because otherwise there's no way I'd miss having a lance user... but apart from that, should I make any particular considerations regarding which weapons I should S-rank, given I can't have one for every weapon type on a team of 6? I'm thinking of having one for each type but staves (I'll probably hardly ever be able to use Miracle if I have it, and I'll be conservative of both Fear and Miracle anyway. Also, +5% hit/crit is good) and lances (S-rank Axe>S-rank Lance).
Taking up your suggestion of making another offensive mage I suppose I could make my Lord slightly glassier in addition to the changes you suggested:
Adept -> War Mage [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/15%]: 56.00
POW [2/10%]: 30.00
SKL [1/10%]: 26.00
SPD [1/15%]: 26.00
DEF [0/0%]: 22.00
RES [2/20%]: 25.00
LCK [0/0%]: 14.00
Still survives 2 WTA Dark hits including Heavy Fenrir or a double Heavy Greataxe but falls to braves and crits more easily if they connect. However she can now pursuit anything without significant speed investment while retaining decent reliability in terms of landing hits. Apart from Pursuit though I have no idea which secondary skill to go for...
Unpromote play seems to come a bit more naturally to me since it is indeed a bit different from promote play so I'll probably post one here soon as well...
(4/10 can't be bad for starters!
)
Eesh. I forgot to even consider Brave Axe. I did calcs for just Brave Bow lol. That should probably tell you what's more common. xD
Yea move 1 speed to HP.
Your lord should S anima mainly because you already have a Wraith that can S Dark. Plus it'll make a great user for Thoron (35 crit is nothing to sneeze at)
Bishop can definitely make use of Radiance (again, 38 crit is nothing to sneeze at) so you might want to S Light.
Wyvern should probably S axes, so it has an even greater chance to crush lance users that might want to target the Valkyrie. Try to get lances to A though.
Valk should be S Swords because it wants to do as much damage as it can to things it can insight. An insight-boosted Regal Blade is nothing to laugh at. Neither is an insight Stiletto. (though, even though that's a 1-2 weapon, you should probably have a unit trade and switch that to a knife because it's heavyasfuck lol)
(05-19-2015, 05:44 PM)Falaflame Wrote: [ -> ]Eesh. I forgot to even consider Brave Axe. I did calcs for just Brave Bow lol. That should probably tell you what's more common. xD
Yea move 1 speed to HP.
Your lord should S anima mainly because you already have a Wraith that can S Dark. Plus it'll make a great user for Thoron (35 crit is nothing to sneeze at)
Bishop can definitely make use of Radiance (again, 38 crit is nothing to sneeze at) so you might want to S Light.
Wyvern should probably S axes, so it has an even greater chance to crush lance users that might want to target the Valkyrie. Try to get lances to A though.
Valk should be S Swords because it wants to do as much damage as it can to things it can insight. An insight-boosted Regal Blade is nothing to laugh at. Neither is an insight Stiletto. (though, even though that's a 1-2 weapon, you should probably have a unit trade and switch that to a knife because it's heavyasfuck lol)
Didn't assume Bows were that much more common than Axes or other weapon types in general, although I'm aware they're the most reliable pegslayers.
S-ranks seem to follow my line of thought which is good. And yes, I wouldn't want to randomly leave a 3 weight weapon equipped on my Valkyrie at the end of a turn and leave her open to pursuits...
And yeah, I'll also A-rank Lances on the Wyvern. I want to max everything I can.
Also does the alternative Lord set fit the "additional magic pursuiter" bill?
It's fine. It even defends against a ton of Aurora units except for Valiants, which because of your bulk, shouldnt be too much of an issue anyway.
I have no ideas about unit builds, I could use all the help I can get. Here's the units I already have.
Archer -> Sniper [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/0%]: 46.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [1/10%]: 30.00
SPD [1/15%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 13.00
LCK [0/0%]: 18.00
--------------------
Footman -> General [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 69.00
POW [0/15%]: 30.00
SKL [1/0%]: 20.00
SPD [1/10%]: 21.00
DEF [2/10%]: 34.00
RES [0/0%]: 14.00
LCK [0/0%]: 6.00
---------------------
Cavalier -> Paladin [Gladiator] (LORD)
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/5%]: 58.00
POW [2/20%]: 30.00 (32.00)
SKL [1/0%]: 20.00
SPD [2/20%]: 27.00
DEF [2/15%]: 29.00
RES [0/10%]: 15.00
LCK [0/0%]: 17.00
---------------------
Dark Kn. -> Chaos Kn. [Careful]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 42.00
POW [1/5%]: 25.00
SKL [0/0%]: 19.00
SPD [0/0%]: 23.00
DEF [2/20%]: 30.00 (31.00)
RES [2/15%]: 22.00
LCK [0/0%]: 14.00
----------------------
Fighter -> Berserker [Brute]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 60.00
POW [2/10%]: 30.00
SKL [1/5%]: 26.00
SPD [1/0%]: 18.00
DEF [0/20%]: 27.00
RES [0/0%]: 13.00
LCK [0/0%]: 13.00
-----------------------
Curate -> Guardian [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/15%]: 60.00 (62.00)
POW [0/5%]: 22.00
SKL [0/0%]: 21.00
SPD [1/0%]: 20.00
DEF [1/5%]: 25.00
RES [2/15%]: 23.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
----------------------
Cleric -> Bishop [Seer]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 52.00
POW [1/10%]: 30.00
SKL [2/10%]: 23.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [1/10%]: 30.00
LCK [0/0%]: 20.00
----------------------
Peg. Knight -> Hawk Kn. [Careful]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 46.00
POW [2/10%]: 23.00
SKL [2/10%]: 28.00
SPD [1/10%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [1/10%]: 24.00
LCK [0/0%]: 18.00
Any suggestions will be graciously welcomed.
A few points to get you started:
1. Change all builds where you overcap stats. You can tell by a number in brackets being next to the stat, for example 30.00 (32.00) on your paladin's strength. Apart from peg mages, troubs and armors, HP caps at 60 and other stats cap at 30.
2. Always cap power. No exceptions, and no matter whether capping power would have been the unit's purpose in a vanilla FE or not because this is an entirely different game.
3. Make sure your units don't die in a single hit. You can find more detailed stuff
here but I'll list the "magic numbers" you'll need here for now:
57 HP+Defense allows a flying unit to survive a heavy great bow. I saw that the Hawk Archer doesn't need any investment for this, so let's move on.
For bulky units, 60 HP/22 Def or Res survives any crit once, 60/19 survives 2 hits unless they're critical, so aim for this when making bulky builds unless you want to counter/aurora/avoid counter or aurora.
2*(39-def) is the damage you take from a Brave Axe, and for WTA disadvantage subtract 2 points from your def, and that's the damage you'll take if both hits connect.
So let me just quote Falaflame on this...
(05-19-2015, 12:57 AM)Falaflame Wrote: [ -> ]The sniper has to survive braves. Braves are everywhere in **/20 play, and players will take a free reliable no-counter kill when they see one. Counters are also a threat, and having miniscule HP and defense means you'll be one-rounded a lot more reliably, usually won't even be needing 2 counter attacks.
There's 2 ways you can do this, hitmaster or pursuit crits, But seeing you have a Troub promote already, I'd be leaning towards the latter.
Archer -> Sniper [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 54.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [0/2.5%]: 26.00
SPD [2/12.5%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 13.00
LCK [0/0%]: 18.00
You can just use the same build he gave me for the sniper. Although as for the Hawk Archer surviving Brave Bows don't bother, it's too much effort and you'd rather invest in avoid anyway. In case you do, you'll need to calculate 2*(42-def), which is the damage a flying unit takes from a Brave Bow. Except you would need to invest 2 points in def and 7 in HP...
4. Roughly half of your team should be mounted. I saw you only have 2 mounts which is especially bad when one of your units is an armored guy who is sluggish...
5. You should have 2 healers at the very least. I don't know about 8 unit battles but it may be better to have 3, although I'll let someone who actually knows about those to speak for that...
6. Having at least one bow is mandatory, although for 8 unit teams 2 is always better. You managed that, so try to keep that.
7. You should have at least one user for each weapon type. I see no anima user, and that leads us to the next point...
8. Your team should have about as many magic as melee units. I see you have 6 melee units and 2 mages aaaand you can't really do that because it'll force you into an attrition battle with even just 1 unit on the opposing side who has a physically bulky unit, you'll be forced to keep the mages safe until that unit comes forward and you don't want that. So rebuild the team and make half of your units magic users and the other half melee users.
9. You should have at least one of crit- or hitmasters, but since I see you have a sniper that's fine.
Just tips for now, I'll leave the rating be because I probably don't quite know enough about this yet
Try to have your team (in a team of 8) have 4 physical and 4 magical units, in terms of weapon usage. Have at least 3 mounts. Maybe 3 healers. And at least 1 bow user, if not, two.
In terms of teams of 6 (which is fairly more common), I suggest having 3 physical attackers and 3 magical attackers, at least 2 mounts, at least 2 healers, and at least 1 bow user.
If you plan to build an unpromote-only team, I normally do 3 physical attacking units and 2 magic attacking units, and one healer. At least have 2 mounts and at least one bow user.
As for your specific stat builds, I have ideal fixes for most of them. I won't be keeping half your team, because it's very physically heavy, and some of them aren't really necessary. There's a lot of work to be done.
Cleric -> Bishop [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/17.5%]: 58.00
POW [2/7.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/7.5%]: 26.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/7.5%]: 28.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Aurora/Wrath?
This build does everything your previous build did, but better. It auroras all the mages it should be activating aurora on, while maintaining longevity (doesn't get pursuit-ORKO'd and isn't brave fodder) and hit rate, and in case one of the oddballs that it doesn't aurora shows up, your sniper or other pursuit units should take care of it handily.
Moving on, your Wraith needs serious work. I'd go to the build MMM had before, but I have one better.
Dark Kn. -> Wraith [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/17.5%]: 60.00
POW [2/7.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 15.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [0/0%]: 27.00
RES [2/15%]: 21.00
LCK [0/0%]: 15.00
This should be used as your lead Wraith. It's not taking much damage from anything, especially if you happen to have a Ward staff on hand on one of your healers. Just watch out for magic pursuiters with crit tomes, and especially watch out for peg mages, as most of them will laugh at your hit rate.
Cavalier -> Paladin [Scholar] (Lord)
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [2/5%]: 27.00
SPD [2/20%]: 27.00
DEF [0/15%]: 23.00
RES [2/5%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 13.00
Pursuit/(Nihil/Impale)
This will be your standard pursuiting lord. This is your offense lead mount, and this will apply offensive pressure so long as it isn't threatened. Often times, if the opponent has a lead that's threatened by this unit, they will be pushed back, or go for a risky and/or bad first strike. This lord survives a lot. The only problem this lord has is it's rather modest hitrate, but if you have a War Medic on hand, or a hitmaster sniper, that won't be so much an issue. The secondary skill has a couple options. You have Impale to outright kill Peg Mages (who otherwise destroy this unit if it doesn't have Nihil on) if you have a Reliable Silver Bow, and Nihil ensures it can survive one round of anything barring magic crits.
For Sniper, I suggest going with this:
Archer -> Sniper [Offencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/5%]: 54.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [0/2.5%]: 26.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 13.00
LCK [2/17.5%]: 29.00
Insight/(Wrath/Impale)
This may look janky, but trust me, it's not. This is one of the best hitmasters you'll find. Not only will it hit anything with impeccable accuracy (Insight Longbows help a lot with first strikes), but because it's a sniper, it'll always have that big chunk chance to crit. Wrath is there to enhance that chunk of crit rate, while Impale is there to say hi to the Peg Mages that are literally everywhere.
My Unit Suggestions
I think I've went over everything you have. So far, this team needs a lot of work. If you want a balanced team, I suggest keeping the Paladin (lord), Sniper (insight build), Bishop (Magically Tanky), and Wraith (physically dual-tanky), dump all the others, and then add:
Troubadour -> War Medic [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 40.00
POW [2/15%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 20.00
SPD [1/5%]: 27.00
DEF [0/0%]: 12.00
RES [0/0%]: 14.00
LCK [2/20%]: 34.00
Insight/Pursuit
This will provide offensive stability with insight and can act as a decent lead against teams with more than a few dodge builds. This unit also has very high dodge rate. However, because it is built just for dodge, if you get unlucky, counters WILL ORKO it. So make sure to de-equip its weapon by switching a staff to the top of the equipment list if you anticipate a counter unit. It's main ability will always be Insight, but Pursuit is there in case you need another pursuiter.
Gale Kn. -> Skyfire Kn. [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/12.5%]: 50.00
POW [0/15%]: 25.00
SKL [2/7.5%]: 26.00
SPD [2/5%]: 34.00
DEF [0/0%]: 7.00
RES [0/0%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 21.00
Pursuit/Nihil.
This will act as your extra healer, and apply offensive magical pressure on your foes. Just watch out for Valiants and Hawk Archers. Its stats are distributed so a Heavy Great Bow won't KO it. Pursuit makes great use of its ability to pursuit anything and everything other than other peg mages, while Nihil is there for bow users with Impale.
Shaman -> Druid [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 52.00
POW [2/7.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/7.5%]: 26.00
SPD [2/15%]: 29.00
DEF [0/0%]: 14.00
RES [0/0%]: 15.00
LCK [0/0%]: 17.00
Pursuit/Wrath?
Backup healer #2. This will apply as a full power pursuiter, and if you have crit tomes on, it can act as a check to several of the physically bulky units you'll find. (heck even if you have reliable-forged equips it still destroys those, and you can even finish with a physical unit if need be) The best part is, this unit doesn't get killed by braves, nor does it get killed by auroras, if you have Worm equipped.
Mercenary -> Swordmaster [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/12.5%]: 56.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/5%]: 26.00
SPD [0/5%]: 27.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 12.00
LCK [0/0%]: 21.00
Pursuit/Wrath
This will fill in for your Berserker, and while it won't do nearly as destructive damage as your Berserker does, nobody still enjoys a pursuit double-crit or even a pursuit with a single crit for that matter. The thing about this unit vs that berserker is, it has a way higher crit rate, and unlike your berserker, can be shoved by your other units because of its relatively workable Con. This thing also survives any and all braves and counters if you have Knife equipped.
So with that, my proposed team is:
Offensive Mount Pursuit/Nihil Paladin Lord
Offensive Insight/Wrath Sniper
Offensive Mount Healer Insight/Pursuit War Medic
Offensive Pursuit/Wrath Swordmaster
Physically Defensive Mount Counter/Nihil Wraith
Magically Defensive Healer Aurora/Wrath Bishop
Offensive Mount Healer Pursuit/Nihil Skyfire Kn
Offensive Healer Pursuit/Wrath Druid
And doing a quick check on the team structure:
3 Mounts? Check.
3 Healers? Check.
2 Bow Users? Check.
4/4 Physical-Magical split? Check.
Now keep in mind, this team STILL has flaws. But the difference is, there's way less flaws. Like for example, almost every unit can't be one-rounded, but a majority of them can be 2-rounded. No team is perfect. But if you can work around the flaws, you'll be fine.
Round 2!
Dark Kn. -> Chaos Kn. [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/20%]: 60.00
POW [2/5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/20%]: 27.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [2/5%]: 27.00
RES [2/20%]: 24.00
LCK [0/0%]: 14.00
Counter/(Wrath/Aurora)
S Dark
Similar to the War Mage on my other team, it's supposed to counter stuff and generally survive everything. This time I hope I won't have to change it to a more offensive build since I've taken care of offense on my other 2 mages.
Mercenary -> Swordmaster [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/12.5%]: 56.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/10%]: 26.00
SPD [2/0%]: 27.00
DEF [0/0%]: 13.00
RES [0/0%]: 12.00
LCK [0/0%]: 21.00
Pursuit/Wrath
This team's critmaster. If my calcs were correct she actually does need that much HP to survive a WTA2 Brave Lance to the face but she makes up for that with being able to double-crit.
Heaven Kn. -> Skyfire Kn. [Serene]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/10%]: 50.00
POW [1/20%]: 25.00
SKL [0/0%]: 15.00
SPD [2/7.5%]: 35.00
DEF [0/0%]: 7.00
RES [1/0%]: 26.00
LCK [1/2.5%]: 26.00
Pursuit/(Insight/Aurora)
S Anima
96 avoid!! Have fun trying to land a hit on this pegasus. This build survives a heavy great bow, won't have to worry about taking Auroras and only gets hit with a 100% chance by Bronze/Iron bow Valiants. Also provides backup healing.
Curate -> Protector [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/2.5%]: 26.00
SPD [0/0%]: 17.00
DEF [0/5%]: 21.00
RES [2/5%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Wrath/Nihil
S Lance
Primary healer. Again, IF I have done my calcs correctly, this should survive 2 hits regardless, WTA2 Axe, magic or whatever else there is. I'm just not entirely sure about her skills though...
Raider -> Barbarian [Rogue]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 52.00
POW [2/20%]: 30.00
SKL [0/5%]: 24.00
SPD [2/15%]: 30.00
DEF [2/0%]: 26.00
RES [0/0%]: 7.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00
Pursuit/Counter
S Bow
Yeah, I kind of like Pursuit/Counter but anyway here's this team's bow (and axe) user. Although I've been thinking, maybe I should switch 2 more points from speed to skill to avoid Wrath...? I definitely wanted to keep the defense though. Survives 2 physical hits or 2 braves, but dies horribly to magic and crits.
Monk -> Missionary [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 40.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/5%]: 26.00
SPD [1/5%]: 28.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 16.00
LCK [0/12.5%]: 26.00
Pursuit/Wrath
Rounds off the magic offense. Pretty avoidy, won't survive braves but that's assuming they hit twice. Otherwise she's built to not be hit by Insight (too hard, anyway) and survives any one hit that isn't critical, so she kind of complements the Barbarian.
No need for additional staff support on this team, and I think I've said it before but I'm also not entirely sure about which skills to use on some of my units...
(05-22-2015, 08:26 AM)MMM Wrote: [ -> ]Heaven Kn. -> Skyfire Kn. [Serene]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/10%]: 50.00
POW [1/20%]: 25.00
SKL [0/0%]: 15.00
SPD [2/7.5%]: 35.00
DEF [0/0%]: 7.00
RES [1/0%]: 26.00
LCK [1/2.5%]: 26.00
Pursuit/(Insight/Aurora)
S Anima
I suggest switching 1 speed to luck so it has at least 27 luck. That way, 30 luck units wont be able to insight it. and considering there are a lot of dodge builds in promotes, you'll be seeing those fairly often.
Quote:Curate -> Protector [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/2.5%]: 26.00
SPD [0/0%]: 17.00
DEF [0/5%]: 21.00
RES [2/5%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Wrath/Nihil
S Lance
You may want to consider either going full-on physically defensive, or just outright change the unit to a pure offensive build, because curate promotes can't dual-tank worth a damn. If you really want a dual tank, though, I highly suggest a Warder promote.
Warder -> Guardian [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/7.5%]: 58.00
POW [2/12.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [2/20%]: 22.00
RES [1/0%]: 28.00
LCK [0/0%]: 11.00
Quote:Raider -> Barbarian [Rogue]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 52.00
POW [2/20%]: 30.00
SKL [0/5%]: 24.00
SPD [2/15%]: 30.00
DEF [2/0%]: 26.00
RES [0/0%]: 7.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00
Pursuit/Counter
S Bow
Raider -> Barbarian [Rogue]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/5%]: 56.00
POW [2/20%]: 30.00
SKL [2/5%]: 26.00
SPD [2/5%]: 26.00
DEF [0/5%]: 26.00
RES [0/0%]: 7.00
LCK [0/0%]: 12.00
Here's your Countersuit unit. Does the same thing, except lives peg mage pursuit gespensts in a single round, or peg mage pursuit heavy fenrirs for that matter. And you can actually choose to be pursuited to activate counter twice.
Quote:Monk -> Missionary [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 40.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/5%]: 26.00
SPD [1/5%]: 28.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 16.00
LCK [0/12.5%]: 26.00
Pursuit/Wrath
If you're going to go avoid, especially with a unit with such weak defenses, you're generally better off going all the way with it.
Monk -> Missionary [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 40.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 22.00
SPD [2/7.5%]: 30.00
DEF [0/0%]: 11.00
RES [0/0%]: 16.00
LCK [1/15%]: 28.00
This unit is a gigantic troll. And if you happen to have a Shimmer tome on hand, you can see why.
- Standard dual tank Druid with Slim Worm, after shimmer, has 37.5% hit, and with aurora activated, aurora hit rates drop to 41%.
- Standard counter tank 26 skill Wraith, after shimmer, has 58.5% hit chance with worm slim. And that's assuming it carries worms.
- Standard dual tank Bishop with Slim Flash, after shimmer, has a 58% hit rate, and with aurora activated, aurora hit rates drop to 38%.
- Standard Dodgy Heaven Knight!Star Knight, after shimmer, has 47% hit after being shimmered.
And that's not counting if you have a unit trade to switch Shimmer to Flash. Hit rates drop even further by 4%.
So, if you have WTD, or you have no skill or luck investment, or you're a standard dual tank, this unit punishes those builds hardcore.
This also lives against pegsuit Elfire. And so long as you have Flash equipped, you can't be pegsuited by Tempest, which would otherwise kill this unit. I could build to defend against it, but there's no real point if I can just prevent being pegsuited by Tempest anyways. It also lives a halberd.
Just watch out for valiants.
that's all i can say for individual class builds.
(05-22-2015, 09:46 PM)Falaflame Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Curate -> Protector [Scholar]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [2/10%]: 60.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/2.5%]: 26.00
SPD [0/0%]: 17.00
DEF [0/5%]: 21.00
RES [2/5%]: 19.00
LCK [0/0%]: 16.00
Wrath/Nihil
S Lance
You may want to consider either going full-on physically defensive, or just outright change the unit to a pure offensive build, because curate promotes can't dual-tank worth a damn. If you really want a dual tank, though, I highly suggest a Warder promote.
Warder -> Guardian [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/7.5%]: 58.00
POW [2/12.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [2/20%]: 22.00
RES [1/0%]: 28.00
LCK [0/0%]: 11.00
To be fair I already have a specially, physically and dual tanky unit each, so I may as well go offensive. Now the question is, do I go Offensive or Glass Cannon? I can't decide between the two...
Curate -> Protector [Offencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 48.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/5%]: 29.00
SPD [0/0%]: 17.00
DEF [0/0%]: 19.00
RES [0/0%]: 11.00
LCK [2/17.5%]: 29.00
Curate -> Protector [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 46.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [1/7.5%]: 29.00
SPD [2/15%]: 29.00
DEF [0/0%]: 19.00
RES [0/0%]: 11.00
LCK [0/0%]: 18.00
For the other units I'll gladly take the suggestions (and start farming Shimmer tomes :trollface: )
(05-23-2015, 12:54 AM)MMM Wrote: [ -> ] (05-22-2015, 09:46 PM)Falaflame Wrote: [ -> ]You may want to consider either going full-on physically defensive, or just outright change the unit to a pure offensive build, because curate promotes can't dual-tank worth a damn. If you really want a dual tank, though, I highly suggest a Warder promote.
Warder -> Guardian [Bulky]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/7.5%]: 58.00
POW [2/12.5%]: 30.00
SKL [0/0%]: 18.00
SPD [0/0%]: 19.00
DEF [2/20%]: 22.00
RES [1/0%]: 28.00
LCK [0/0%]: 11.00
To be fair I already have a specially, physically and dual tanky unit each, so I may as well go offensive. Now the question is, do I go Offensive or Glass Cannon? I can't decide between the two...
Curate -> Protector [Offencive]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [0/0%]: 48.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [2/5%]: 29.00
SPD [0/0%]: 17.00
DEF [0/0%]: 19.00
RES [0/0%]: 11.00
LCK [2/17.5%]: 29.00
Curate -> Protector [Glass Cannon]
Stats at level 20/20
HP [1/0%]: 46.00
POW [2/17.5%]: 30.00
SKL [1/7.5%]: 29.00
SPD [2/15%]: 29.00
DEF [0/0%]: 19.00
RES [0/0%]: 11.00
LCK [0/0%]: 18.00
For the other units I'll gladly take the suggestions (and start farming Shimmer tomes :trollface: )
I'd go Glass Cannon just for the sake of not dying to pursuits.
Protector isn't an avoid-type class and Lance dies to Axe, not sure if you can get ORKO'd, I don't know the maths.
Got a point, Offensive Curate survives Heavy Greataxe Pursuit, but not a Heavy Fenrir Pursuit, so I'll go with Glass Cannon.
For the sake of maths:
Greataxe calc
Greataxe might = 16
might + 2 (heavy forge) = 18
might + 30 (atk stat) = 48
48 + WTA2 - 19 (def) = 31
floor(31 * 0.75) * 2 (pursuit) = 46 < 48
Fenrir calc
might+forge+atk=48
48-11 (res) = 37
floor(37 * 0.75) * 2 = 54 > 48