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Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - Falaflame - 07-14-2014
It has not gone by unnoticed.
The battle types, "Fixed" (both formes) and "RNG Fairness" are by far and away the least used types ever in the entire game in recent history. Almost nobody touches them, and the general interest in those types are non-existent. Players who create matches that include at least one of these types are almost /guaranteed/ to not have the battle start.
Fixed mode was popular back in 2008-2009 when FETO first started out, and players like Mint, Inanimateness, and Shiori were around. It was generally made for people who hate missing their attacks. Now that they aren't here anymore, the usage of these types completely fell off the face of the earth. As for RNG Fairness, I have no background on that type, so there's really not much to say about it. That battle type was made for people who not only miss those 89%s, but miss them consistently. Those are even more unused than fixed, but that doesn't undermine how rarely, if ever, seen Fixed battles are in recent history.
Now, I have done my research. To give you a perspective on how unused Fixed and RNG Fairness are, I've pulled up some database information courtesy of sirocyl. There has been 58,675 battles that have been made since 1/1/2010. Out of all of those battles, 3468 of them have either Fixed (Semi), Fixed (Full), RNG Fairness, or either of the fixed modes paired with RNG Fairness.
That is a staggering 5.9% out of all the battles done from that point to today this post has been made. COMBINED. The numbers get even more ridiculous when you single out those 3 types by themselves in filters.
Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is, Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness has been sitting there as Battle Types collecting dust for 4 and a half years now. In fact, I have a Fixed (Semi) battle sitting there as one of two only Fixed battles created all year. Not a single person took the bait. I've even spoken to a lot of the players in the FETO chat, and it seems as though no one even wants to even give it a chance. After all, I'm the only active FETO player who was willing to at least experiment with it, considering I've spent near 40,000 gold forming a team based entirely on Fixed Semi.
The numbers do NOT lie. Nobody likes any of these battle types. No one's willing to even give them a chance.
So that's where I get to the real meat of this post.
Shall we get rid of them completely in FETO 4.0? Shall we keep them and make some changes to it in FETO 4.0? Shall we ditch those battle types and come up with a completely new type to replace them? Shall we leave it unchanged?
Because as it stands, it does no good keeping a battle type if it's never going to be used. Newbies that want to play Fixed or RNG Fairness won't ever get to battle, because the general consensus hates those types. They will be highly discouraged from playing those types, and as such, will be forced to play outside of their comfort zone. We're losing members like this as a result, people who want to experiment new realms.
I want opinions on what needs to be done about these following Battle Types:
-RNG Fairness
-Fixed (Semi)
-Fixed (Full)
What do you think should be done about those types? And post your reasons why. Also post exactly why you don't like those types, and why those types do not deserve any chance to be played around with. And, as well, post what we can do to improve those battle types so people will be genuinely interested in at least experimenting with it. Any and all ideas about those battle types are welcome here. The more information that is given about these types, the better.
Edit: This may very well also apply to Defense, Assault, and Respawn as well, but we will discuss those at a later time. I had a lot of buildup coming to this thread already. x:
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - Breadophile - 07-14-2014
RNG Fairness should be a biased RNG, but not one that the players know the workings of.
For reference, the RNG should be so biased it's preferable to the normal 1 RN system.
For Fixed Mode, roll 1 RN like normal. On a miss you deal fixed damage instead of normal damage. Yes, this is a rather disgusting thought, but it does balance out if you think about it a little.
Edit: I'm glad you finally decided to do something about this. I was worried y'all were gonna stick to that "not until FETO4 policy" until... well... FETO4.
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - Fredmir - 07-14-2014
Those statistics doesn't really mean anything.
I don't see anyone playing traps, Defence, Defence Swap, Assault, Respawn, Lord Defeat, etc, either.
However the difference between this list and your 3 choices is : I'd probably try to play them on lulzy battles.
I'm not going to even touch RNG lolness and lolfixed modes, cause I find them boring, I'm a casual and those are modes where luck is ''taken out''. Fixed modes where played by, like you said, didn't like losing to other players that were 'weaker' than them.
I enjoy that part of the game where luck can allow you to beat other players that are better than you skillwise, cause if that never happened, I wouldn't play players I knew I'd lose to.
So as for myself, I'd trash those battle types, cause no matter how you modify then, the goal of these modes is exactly why I'm never going to play them.
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - Breadophile - 07-14-2014
This game should appear to both filthy casuals like yourselves AND the competitive gaming master race (=P). These modes are for the latter.
If anything the mode to toss is traps. That mode is absolutely infuriating.
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - Nolan Kryptonite - 07-14-2014
Well if you're getting rid of these you might as well get rid of Assault, Defense, Traps, Adrenaline, Realism, Traps, 2 RN, ... well basicially everything not 20 or **/20.
I think those modes are fine, although Fixed could lose the unecessary added damage. And if RNG Fairness took damage into account (so missing a 90% 1 damage doesn't let you suddenly roll with 40% 30 damage shots), it might be better too.
Re: Kaishin's suggestion: No. That would make it so there is no con for throwing out the bombz. 30% Heavy Fenrir that at worst deals the same damage as a Worm anyways*? GOGOGO
*Do not have the actual numbers
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - sirocyl - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 01:25 AM)Breadophile Wrote: I'm glad you finally decided to do something about this. I was worried y'all were gonna stick to that "not until FETO4 policy" until... well... FETO4.
Now that development is opening up, we're taking more risks and making more bread.
The main objective is to move FETO3 off of the IPB platform and then fix FETO4's game modes, still, but we're accepting "FETO4" changes in current mainline, as well now.
The main reason we wanted to wait for 4 for gameplay changes, is:
- Backend code (managing gameplay and mechanics) will have been fully separated from middleware (managing players, content, cross-integration plugins, and game state) and the frontend code (user interface, game engine, realtime data exchange and client/server APIs, both public and private).
This makes managing the core feature set a whole lot easier, and delegating proper access will be a cinch.
- Changing game modes and mechanics may require a massive database reset or conversion. Plus, the way data was stored in FETO runs against convention, and not in a good way (WTF SaS); this makes adding features without breaking things, a challenge in SQL tetris, on top of the PHP dominoes.
On a different topic. I'm reading the thread, and it seems some game-modes are more suited for casual/"fun" play, and not friendly to competitive/"super srs, fox iteme, final only, no destination" play.
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - Falaflame - 07-14-2014
I think most people would rather play Defense Swap, Adrenaline, Realism, and even 2 RN over the 3 given types, honestly. At least there's some people that are willing to play those types. Name me one active player that would willingly play Fixed or RNG Fairness.
That's part of the issue here.
But let's leave all of the other types for another topic. Let's just exclusively discuss what to do with these types first. Baby steps.
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - Nolan Kryptonite - 07-14-2014
*points to unstarted battles list*
Also Mint won't be happy to return and see her fave modes are gone.
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - sirocyl - 07-14-2014
Perhaps we can just move them under a menu or something, improve on them later, then return them to the limelight as "NEW AND IMPROVED! (BETA)"? Outright removing the game types completely seems it will be a lot more trouble than good.
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - Speedy - IX - 07-14-2014
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - Fredmir - 07-14-2014
With that's been said here and on skype chat, I must agree my vote is a little bit excessive. I though about it and it's not because I don't plan on ever play those modes that others can't want them.
I was wrong in saying they need to be trashed, what they need is to be modified so people who hate missing that much will play it. Which isn't the case right now.
So yeah, if a MOD ABUSE can change my vote to the 3rd one (where everyone else voted) it would be appreciated.
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - sirocyl - 07-14-2014
You have been MOD
MOD ABUSED there we go
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - Nolan Kryptonite - 07-14-2014
(07-14-2014, 10:52 AM)Vaike - IX Wrote:Voting to keep them in their current state, why not give a bunch of info on the modes so that people would at least know what they are playing? Because I honestly don't even know how damage is even calculated in those modes, or anything else besides the fact that one has crit rates and the other doesn't (fixed and semi-fixed).The modes have potential to be played (we have had a ton of ppl that hate missing) I just feel like people need to know what they'd be getting into, the descriptions of those modes are also kinda vague....until I had to search in the battle mechanics to get a full description. Fixed full seems interesting, though all of the modes still seem to favor high hit and crit. Maybe they could be spiced up a bit~
RNG Fairness: If you have been lucky, you are more likely to miss and vice versa.
Fixed (semi): Damage is scaled to hit rate. (so 20 damage, 75% hit becomes 15 damage, 100% hit) Criticals are still random but are also scaled to hit rate. (so 20% crit, 75% hit becomes 15% crit)
So 20 damage, 75% hit, 20% crit becomes 15 damage, 100% hit, 15% crit.
Fixed (full): Damage is scaled to hit rate, then scaled by crit rate which is halved. (so 20 damage, 75% hit becomes 15 damage, if it had 20% crit, it becomes 10% and added to the damage. 110% of 15 is 16.5, so the unit does 16 damage.
All of this is on the mechanics page btw... >.> (also damage should round up)
Fixed (semi) is friendly to newbies. Fixed (full) is just pure dancing.
Fixed (full) is the one where there is just random damage (IMO) added.
Formula should be weighted average of all possible outcomes. If we're keeping the awkward 2.25 damage crits, it should be:
Hit%*Crit%*Damage*2.25 + Hit%*(1-Crit%)*Damage
So 20 damage, 75% hit, 20% crit becomes .75*.2*20*2.25+.75*.8*20 = 18.75 = (lolroundown) 18.
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - Nolan Kryptonite - 07-15-2014
On a side note, we should get Kill Unit Limit mode... makes FFAs more exciting and not reward cowardice.
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - Falaflame - 07-17-2014
^this.
There's a reason why I don't play FFA's.
RE: Fixed Mode and RNG Fairness - fensti - 07-25-2014
I don't think we should remove any modes. If the modes work then leave them in. As far as I know of, the space the code takes up in negligible. I'm all for trying to tweak them (and perhaps having those tweaks be subsets of these battle types) but not for removal.