Dual stat skills not activating

[Speedchain]

Note: Both with and without nihil it were greatshield and mirage that weren't activating so it is probably a problem with the dual stat skills and not nihil. I didn't have any other dual stat skills so I couldn't test any others, but I'm guessing that there are more dual stat skills that aren't activating correctly and my post about twins not activating dual stat skills might just have been astra not working correctly the same way that mirage and greatshield weren't working correctly here.


In these scenarios greatshield is not activating (at least according to the match up preview).

12 def, 5 res knight did not activate greatshield against the following units:

5 def, 8 res aurora shaman
8 def, 4 res counter gladiator

Here were some scenarios where mirage didn't activate:

13 speed, 7 luck lunar knight did not activate mirage against the following units:

10 speed, 5 luck pursuit lancer
9 speed, 6 luck counter gladiator

10 speed, 9 luck monk does not activate mirage against the following units:

10 speed, 5 luck pursuit lancer
9 speed, 6 luck counter gladiator

10 speed, 9 luck peg. archer does not activate mirage against the following units:

10 speed, 5 luck pursuit lancer
9 speed, 6 luck counter gladiator


Here are some match ups with nihil involved:

12 def, 5 res greatshield knight vs 25 hp, 6 def, 4 res nihil fighter. 
Doesn't activate.

13 speed, 7 luck mirage lunar knight vs 25 hp, 6 speed, 8 luck nihil fighter.
Doesn't activate.

13 speed, 7 luck mirage lunar knight vs 24 hp, 7 speed, 7 luck nihil curate

10 speed, 9 luck peg. archer vs 25 hp, 6 speed, 8 luck nihil fighter.
Doesn't activate.

10 speed, 9 luck peg. archer vs 24 hp, 7 speed, 7 luck nihil curate
Doesn't activate.

10 speed, 9 luck monk vs 25 hp, 6 speed, 8 luck nihil fighter.
Doesn't activate.

10 speed, 9 luck monk vs vs 24 hp, 7 speed, 7 luck nihil curate
Doesn't activate.

29 hp, 12 pow colossus guard vs 25 hp 9 pow nihil fighter.
Does activate.

29 hp, 12 pow colossus guard vs 24 hp, 8 pow nihil curate.
Does activate

[MMM]

I think that all of these cases should be covered by the fact that the skill activation for dual stat skills is now 6 and the effect of Nihil has also been doubled on those. More testing may be needed to ensure that this is in fact working 100% correctly, but the cases you presented seem to be perfectly fine under the newest revision of dual stat skill activation. I suppose there's a reason those aren't publicly playable yet xD

[Speedchain]

(04-01-2016, 12:27 PM)MMM Wrote: I think that all of these cases should be covered by the fact that the skill activation for dual stat skills is now 6 and the effect of Nihil has also been doubled on those. More testing may be needed to ensure that this is in fact working 100% correctly, but the cases you presented seem to be perfectly fine under the newest revision of dual stat skill activation. I suppose there's a reason those aren't publicly playable yet xD

You migth want to mention that on the mechanics page, because I read the page before I made this post and didn't know that.

My colossus activated against a nihil while it shouldn't have activated at all if you changed it to 6, because it was +5.

I don't agree with choosing to make to make it really hard to activate skills instead of actually nerfing them. Especially in unpromo +6 is a huge amount and will cause skills to not activate against units that have no investment in 1 of the stats (depending on the skill and units, of course, but it can happen in a lot of situations). There are also buff staves for some stats which gives their dual stat skills an unfair advantage over the others and some of the dual stat skills aren't even that good or are very situational.

Of course, we will need testing to judge it properly, but +6 just seems like a bit much.

Edit: How do twins work? Do they have a double effect like nihil?

[MMM]

Lazy mode: on

(04-01-2016, 04:00 PM)Speedchain Wrote:

(04-01-2016, 12:27 PM)MMM Wrote: I think that all of these cases should be covered by the fact that the skill activation for dual stat skills is now 6 and the effect of Nihil has also been doubled on those. More testing may be needed to ensure that this is in fact working 100% correctly, but the cases you presented seem to be perfectly fine under the newest revision of dual stat skill activation. I suppose there's a reason those aren't publicly playable yet xD

You migth want to mention that on the mechanics page, because I read the page before I made this post and didn't know that.
The mechanics page hasn't been updated in a while sadly, lots of things are still outdated like Pavise as opposed to Parity saying "not available yet" ._.

My colossus activated against a nihil while it shouldn't have activated at all if you changed it to 6, because it was +5.
I was making some calcs with Chaos Knights today and I suspect it's probably the fact that it hasn't been changed for HP Dual Stat Skills yet, hopefully it will be fixed soon.

I don't agree with choosing to make to make it really hard to activate skills instead of actually nerfing them. Especially in unpromo +6 is a huge amount and will cause skills to not activate against units that have no investment in 1 of the stats (depending on the skill and units, of course, but it can happen in a lot of situations). There are also buff staves for some stats which gives their dual stat skills an unfair advantage over the others and some of the dual stat skills aren't even that good or are very situational.
This reminds me that I have never played with a Grace staff and thus couldn't test it WHICH IS KIND OF HARD WHEN YOU NEVER GET ANY OUT OF YOUR SHITTY TREASURES *COUGH*

Of course, we will need testing to judge it properly, but +6 just seems like a bit much.
I do hope we can get some testing done in the coming weeks, the thing that'll be difficult will be adjusting the skill activation so it works in both promos and unpromos.

Edit: How do twins work? Do they have a double effect like nihil?
I think they should but I can't be sure since I barely even use Twins/Emblems myself...

[Speedchain]

I did some calcs in the stat calculator and found out that wt is used twice in the dual stat activation calculation. This means that you need +6 for 0wt, +8 for 1wt, +10 for 2 wt and +12 for 3wt. It also works the other way around so that if your opponent is holding a brave weapon you can activate with 0wt if your combined stats are 2 lower than your opponent's. This is probably the reason why twins don't activate dual stat skills at the moment.

I also noticed that all hp dual stat skills activate at +4 so it's not the hp that is used wrong in the formula. 40/20 activated against 40/16 while 40/20 against 36/20 does not.