[REPOST] Sweeping Changes to FETO

[Nolan Kryptonite]

So needless to say, there are a few problems with FETO as is...

Problem: Defense-oriented Metagame
Like Brawl, FETO has a defense-oriented metagame, which makes it... less exciting.

Solution:
Buffing offensive stats
Giving attackers an advantage (rather than defenders a "disadvantage")
Nerfing/Changing buff staves

Problem: Pow-centralized Metagame
It's almost always max Pow or bust

Solution:
Making other stats (more) important
Changing status staff formula

Problem: Unviable Avoid
Avoid is unviable in unpromo and is only decent in promo

Solution:
Lower hit rates of weapons

Problem: Unused/Unusable Classes
Some classes are just inferior to other classes

Solution:
Give classes within the same "tree" specialties?
Class skills?
Nix lots of classes (and alter characters with those classes to the "archetype"? (ex: all Troubs become Valkyries)

[Breadophile]

(07-10-2014, 01:16 AM)Nolan Kryptonite Wrote: So needless to say, there are a few problems with FETO as is...

Quite, quite.

Quote:Problem: Defense-oriented Metagame
Like Brawl, FETO has a defense-oriented metagame, which makes it... less exciting.

Problem: Pow-centralized Metagame
It's almost always max Pow or bust

I suggested before a STR/MAG split. All units that don't use both magical and physical weapons/staves get 10 for their off-attack stat (MAG or STR). Their off-attack stat is not affected by natures. Regardless of which stat it is, every 2 points of STR above 10 but below 21 gives 1 point of eff. MAG (eMAG for short). The reverse also applies. A unit with 30 STR and 20 MAG has 35 eSTR and 25 eMAG. There are no increases in the amount of stats you get to invest with, so it'll be hard to put 20 MAG/STR on every character.

Every 3 points of SKL above 19 (thresholds are 22, 25, and 28) also gives 1 to both eMAG and eSTR, to a max of 3 (in case SKL+ staves are introduced or something else insane).

This makes impale a thing, which utterly decimates any remaining hope dual tanks have of tanking blows. I say put in a clause that causes impale not to activate if the opponent's DEF/RES is greater than 4 less than your eSTR/eMAG. This prevents single tanks from dying out. Single tanks have a rightful place in this game, IMO.

This also buffs wrath, since 30 SKL wrath units can now killer people who've decided to stop at 25 SKL. hehe

I want to say follow up with the introduction of magical weapons and physical tomes (giant brick anyone?), but that nerfs single tanks so hard...

Quote:Problem: Unviable Avoid
Avoid is unviable in unpromo and is only decent in promo

I have nothing. I'm sorry to disappoint.

Quote:Problem: Unused/Unusable Classes
Some classes are just inferior to other classes

Skills are my answer to this. Class nixing is the worst possible thing you could do, IMO, but somebody might be able to convince me otherwise.

[Nolan Kryptonite]

Classes Post Purge (with stat specialties):
Adept - Anima/Dark (excels in Spd/Def)
- Warlock - Light/Anima/Dark
- War Adept - Anima/Dark Horse

Mage - Anima (Pow/Spd)
- Sage - Anima/Staff
- War Mage - Anima/Dark

Gale Knight - Anima (Skl/Spd/Res)
- Skyfire Knight - Anima/Staff
- Flare Knight - Light/Anima

Solar Knight - Light (Spd/Res/Luc)
- Flare Knight - Light/Anima
- Dawn Knight - Light/Staff

Monk - Light (Spd/Res)
- Bishop - Light/Staff
- Crusader - Light/Anima

Shaman - Dark (all round)
- Druid - Dark/Staff
- Chaos Knight - Light/Dark

Cleric - Staff (Pow/Luc)
- Bishop - Light/Staff
- Sage - Anima/Staff

Curate - Staff (Pow/Def)
- War Monk - Axe/Staff
- Druid - Dark/Staff

Troubadour - Staff (Spd/Luc)
- Valkyrie - Sword/Staff
- Holy Knight - Light/Staff Horse

Archer - Bow (Skl/Luc)
- Sniper - Bow +15 Crit
- Captain - Lance/Bows

Fighter - Axe (Pow/Spd)
- Berserker - Axe +15 Crit
- Warrior - Axe/Bows

Mercenary - Sword (Skl/Spd)
- Swordmaster - Sword +15 Crit
- Hero - Axe/Sword

Soldier - Lance (Pow/Def)
- Halberdier - Lance +15 Crit
- Infantry - Sword/Lance

Warder - Sword (Spd/Res)
- Agent - Sword +15 Hit
- Lumiere - Sword/Light

Assailant - Axe (HP/Res)
- Leftenant - Axe +15 Hit
- Ascetic - Axe/Anima

Pikeman - Lance (Skl/Res)
- Centurion - Lance +15 Hit
- Oracle - Lance/Dark

Cavalier - Lance Horse (Skl/Def)
- Paladin - Lance/Bow Horse
- Champion - Sword/Lance Horse

Nomad - Bow Horse (Skl/Spd)
- Paladin - Lance/Bow Horse
- Nomad Trooper - Sword/Bow Horse

Guard - Axe/Lance (HP/Pow/Def)
- General - Sword/Axe/Lance
- Juggernaut - Axe/Lance +15 Crit Eva

Peg Archer - Bow Pegasus (Spd/Luc)
- Seraphknight - Lance/Bow Pegasus
- Hawk Archer - Bow +15 Avd Pegasus

Peg Knight - Lance Pegasus (Spd/Res)
- Seraphknight - Lance/Bow Pegasus
- Hawk Knight - Lance +15 Avd Pegasus

Wyvern Fighter - Sword Wyvern (Pow/Skl)
- Wyvern Knight - Sword/Axe Wyvern
- Dracoknight - Sword +15 Avd Wyvern

Wyvern Rider - Axe Wyvern (Pow/Def)
- Wyvern Knight - Sword/Axe Wyvern
- Dracolord - Axe +15 Avd Wyvern

---

Quote:Skills are my answer to this. Class nixing is the worst possible thing you could do, IMO, but somebody might be able to convince me otherwise.

There are tons of classes right now that serve literally no purpose aside from novelty because they are:
-Completely outclassed
-Have terrible BST

There is no reason other than "just having more options" to have every possible combination of every possible stat distribution with every possible weapon typing possible. With more variety, with not many options (as far as skills and stats) means that there WILL be "the best" and other options are just inferior. We really don't need the ~8 top tier classes seen in every battle with 30 classes never used (except as novelty).

Also skills, assuming current ones are done away with:
Adept and Mage:
- Erudite: Crit +30% when own Skl is 4 greater than opponent's Skl.
- Innocent: Dark WTA is negated on this unit.

Archer and Mystic:
- Hawkeye: Accuracy with Bows is increased by 10% when attacking foot units.
- Parity: Negates WTA from melee units attacking this unit.

Assailant and Fighter:
- Colossus: Damage increased by 3 when Con exceeds opponents.
- Smite: Shoving distance increased by 1 when user's Con exceeds Unit's Con.

Cavalier and Raider:
- Rider: Damage increased by 3 when attacking foot units.
- Jouster: Horse weakness is removed.

Cleric:
- Tomefaire: Gain WTA2 when a tome is equipped.
- Staffer: Staves heal an extra 5 HP, ranged staves have 1 extra range.

Curate
- Weaponfaire: Gain WTA2 when a weapon is equipped.
- Nihil: Skills are negated when attacking this unit.

Dark Knight and Shaman:
- Chaos: Attack is increased by 2 when attacking a unit with a light tome equipped.
- Anathema: Enemy Avd is decreased by 15 when attacking this unit.

Footman/Guard/Knight:
- Counter: Weapon attackers are hit with half of their Atk when attacking this unit when their Def is 4 greater than enemy Def.
- Parry: Damage from weapons is halved.

Gale Knight and Lunar Knight:
- Luna: Enemy Res is halved when attacking.
- Renewal: Heal 20% HP at the beginning of each turn.

Heaven Knight and Solar Knight:
- Sol: 50% of damage dealt is healed.
- Aurora: Magic attackers are hit with half their Atk when attacking this unit when their Res is 4 greater than enemy Res.

Mercenary and Warder:
- Adept: When Spd is 4 or more greater than opponent's, attack twice at full power.
- Vantage: Counterattack before the enemy's attack when Spd is 4 or more greater than opponent's.

Monk and Templar
- Treaty: Ends battle when missing opponents.
- Fortune: Crit Avd +15 when own Luck > Opponent's.

Nomad and Scout:
- Canto: User may move after attacking.
- Jockey: Terrain movement penalty is removed.

Peg Archer:
- Hunter: Accuracy with Bows is increased by 15% when attacking another flying unit.
- Maelstrom: When dodging an attack, attacker takes their Atk - their Res in damage.

Peg Knight:
- Mageslayer: Damage increased by 3 when attacking a unit with a tome equipped.
- Savior: Skl/Spd not reduced when carrying a unit.

Pikeman and Soldier:
- Impale: Damage increased by 50% when Pow is 4 more more greater than opponents' Skl.
- Skilled: +15 Avd when attacked by an Axe.

Troubadour:
- Lucky: When Luck is 4 greater than enemy's Luck, your hit and crit RNs go from 0~90 and opponent's hit and crit RNs go from 10~100.
- Miracle: Enemy Crit is lowered by 15%, also immune to Status staves.

Wyverns:
- Ire: Damage increased by 5 against Pegasus and Horse units when own Pow is 4 or more greater than enemy Def.
- Aegis: Eliminates normal weakness to bows.

*Some may change after promo?

There, kind of balanced the bad classes. Also Peg Mages lost auto-pursuit so they get nifty skills instead.

The class bonuses (5/5/5 and 15, maybe 5/5/5 changed to 5/5/5/5) still exist.

Possible skills unused:
Escutcheon: Use Defense stat for attacks.
Meditator: Damage from magic attacks halved.
Barrier: Use Res stat for attacks.
Windfall: Luck replaces Skl in battle formulas.
Swift: use Spd atat for attacks.

Skills that work with current ones:
Follow Up: Pursuit attacks consecutively
Anger Point: Wrath's Crit rate increased to 30%
Adept: Pursuit increased to 2 attacks of full power

etc.

[Breadophile]

Krypto, for the best stat distribution, you want it to be easy to choose the stats for the play style you want, but you also want lots of different options.

Let's take mage riders as an example. This is sort of cheating because each of the three mage rider classes promote from two other, different classes with two very different stat distributions, but they are probably the best example either way. The mage riders have a very discreet yet awesome combination of abilities: +5 hit and a mount. This allows them some more lee-way when planning units. I don't know the statistics, but Mike has said that the entire class would fall apart without the +5 hit. But we all know that with it, the entire line is awesome.

So tell me, how many different types of mage riders have you seen? There's a different, completely viable build (along with slight variants) for every skill barring wrath (and maybe nihil, but that's because nihil is lol). Even then, you can still build one for wrath, it's just not many people do it because the unit can't hit and run.

Even limiting it to just wraiths (or just missionaries), you'll still see this.

Contrast snipers, who are used almost exclusively for one thing: hit and running. They have very few variants and nearly all of them are built the same way: hit accurately and for enough damage to OHKO/ORKO. Some of them invest in speed over complete skill and luck so they aren't completely crippled defensively.

This relates more to the design of the whole game, but we want the class to be easy to use as well. Snipers are hard to use because they make the center of the h&r game. The only builds the high-level players use on the damn things are hit and run builds. It's very complex and hard to use, especially for beginners. This combined with the few builds for it make it undeniably the worst designed class in the game. This is in terms of fun, not balance.

Remember Krypto, we can't forget the objective of designing a game. I don't know if you hype on about it a lot, but I myself get stuck on the balance part way too much. I've gotten a lot better about it lately, though.

Back to snipers. Krypto, when you get a chance, play a few matches with a sniper and don't hit and run with it. At all. Tell me if it gets a little more interesting. Hell, I assume you've done this suiciding in gauntlets. Were snipers more interesting to use in that too? I bet they were.

Comparitively, since one doesn't normally hit and run with the other critmasters, they don't have this problem. It may be harder to get hits because of their favorable range being 1 instead of 2, sure, but the premise of them is simple: take a killer or S-rank and go to town. They do have fewer builds than the mage riders, but their relatively simplicity compensates for this. Besides, nothing has as many viable builds as a mage rider.

For another example, wyverns have a decent number of different builds, but are notable in that they are some of the simplest classes to use, if not they simplest (smashy smashy countery/pursuity death).

Mageriders are slightly more complex but they too are very easy to use if you've built them with a specific role in mind.

If you couldn't figure it out, using the same premise I used to say that snipers were the worst class, I would say that mage riders are the best class.

[Nolan Kryptonite]

It is nice for classes to be versatile, but that isn't really the point I was making... The "best stats" for the caps are soft caps to give classes distinct and tangible specialties so that classes won't tread into each others' territory.

Want a fast and powerful mage? Go with Mage -> Sage. Want a more defensive healer? Go with Cleric -> Sage.

[Breadophile]

(07-10-2014, 10:34 PM)Nolan Kryptonite Wrote: It is nice for classes to be versatile, but that isn't really the point I was making... The "best stats" for the caps are soft caps to give classes distinct and tangible specialties so that classes won't tread into each others' territory.

Want a fast and powerful mage? Go with Mage -> Sage. Want a more defensive healer? Go with Cleric -> Sage.

I'm starting to see what you mean by class nixing, though that name is sort of a misnomer. It's not so much that classes are useless, but simply that we have too many doing the same exact thing (with the top tier classes doing them better). Each class needs to be different.

Re-arranging the classes is probably the best idea I've heard all day, and it can support my idea as well as yours as long as each promotion is distinctly different.

The only way to make wyvern promotions distinctly different, however, would be to make their weapons distinctly different.

Is there a way we can do that?

Edit: As an example, this is what I mean by distinctly different:

Quote:Assailant - Axe (HP/Res)
- Leftenant - Axe +15 Hit
- Ascetic - Axe/Anima

[LeaderR Elliot]

All these proposals are too complex... there would be too many skills at the same time I will not know what is going on anymore, avoid problem isnt that bad in unpromo with terrain bonuses and some sadistic. In promo weapon base hit rates are ok most of the time, I have little problem hitting most of the dodgemasters, trying to chain 50% is that bad tho, but again when 50% chance to die is there, is too high for dodgemasters.

I don't believe in magical changes, every cahnge get other type of problems, thats why we got different battle modes, if you really want to make a change to the very core of FETO you have to think how it affects EVERY SINGLE MODE IN THE DAMN GAME BEFORE EVEN DREAM ON THAT.

[Nolan Kryptonite]

There would have to be some nixing too... What I posted was an example of a post-nixing.

As for being too complex, couldn't you say the same thing about canon FE? These aren't changes that will be broken and stuff-- it can be re-changed if it doesn't work. The point is some classes get better weapons, some get better skills, and others get better stats, and using that to be the balance. Sure, there may be "the best" after a while, but the game is changable.

And no one treats terrain maps or sadistic or even other modes as the thing to balance around. Really.

[Falaflame]

You know, if there happens to actually be a full reset for FETO 4.0, a class purge COULD be an option. Everyone starts from scratch anyway, so there's little to be lost.

Just throwing that out there. However, I'd probably prefer the added skills to existing classes to nixing them. There would have to be a testing phase for those units first before anything, however.

[Speedy - IX]

(07-14-2014, 07:28 AM)Falaflame Wrote: However, I'd probably prefer the added skills to existing classes to nixing them. There would have to be a testing phase for those units first before anything, however.

So much this^^^^^

Some units really only need a skill or a stat change to make them helpful/give them a niche (or worth choosing over the most popular options).

[sirocyl]

There will be plenty of time to test the changes once we begin development.
It's looking like, there will be two parallel beta's once the code split is merged into prod tree.
One will be to test frontend and feature additions, as well as middleware and communications.
The second beta tree will be used for backend, mechanics, and new game modes.

This will keep them isolated from the main game, and provide a middle path for fast-paced UI development (planning on a weekly production loadout) and middleware (on a fortnightly schedule) to not interfere with time-tested gameplay development (syncing on a monthly or quarterly cycle).

[Nolan Kryptonite]

(07-14-2014, 12:22 PM)Vaike - IX Wrote:

(07-14-2014, 07:28 AM)Falaflame Wrote: However, I'd probably prefer the added skills to existing classes to nixing them. There would have to be a testing phase for those units first before anything, however.

So much this^^^^^

Some units really only need a skill or a stat change to make them helpful/give them a niche (or worth choosing over the most popular options).

Yet there will still be clutter, skills may not be that exclusive, and it will be harder to balance. :/

[Speedy - IX]

Skills are already non-exclusive, *points to 5/5/5s* and the 5 basic skills. Giving unused units a slight boost, revamp in stat dist,or a class skill should be able to net them a niche and at least be viable in higher lv play. We don't really need for skills to be exclusive per-say, some classes could just use some (or stat revamping). It'll be even harder to balance if we start over from scratch btw (seeing as there would be a lot more going into it).

[Nolan Kryptonite]

Well I felt the pointof class skills were to make each class unique... >_>;

And we aren't starting from scratch if we remove a bunch of classes... the others will still be around.

[Falaflame]

Personally, I feel a lot of the WTA2 classes lose relevance over the Crit/Hit/Avoid counterparts they also promote to. (and they also lose relevance, to some extension, to 5/5/5's too) Some of the stat spreads on those classes are rather dreadful (like Infantry for example) But for the most part, they're fine. What they really need is something to make them relevant again.

I want to see as many heroes, rangers, warriors, etc as I do swordmasters, snipers, and berserkers. How can we fix this?

[Breadophile]

(07-14-2014, 08:20 PM)Nolan Kryptonite Wrote:

(07-14-2014, 12:22 PM)Vaike - IX Wrote: So much this^^^^^

Some units really only need a skill or a stat change to make them helpful/give them a niche (or worth choosing over the most popular options).

Yet there will still be clutter, skills may not be that exclusive, and it will be harder to balance. :/

All we have to do is get it sort of correct, then buff or nerfed things regularly in an open beta. Balance will be fine.

[Speedy - IX]

(07-17-2014, 08:15 PM)Breadophile Wrote:

(07-14-2014, 08:20 PM)Nolan Kryptonite Wrote: Yet there will still be clutter, skills may not be that exclusive, and it will be harder to balance. :/

All we have to do is get it sort of correct, then buff or nerfed things regularly in an open beta. Balance will be fine.

I've been trying lol and this is what I've came up with so far. Basically class abilities upon promotion, in order to help them with their respective niches.

---

Crusader - Lance Breaker: WTA2 vs Lance units
War Mage - Axe Breaker - ^ vs Axe units
Chaos Kn. - Sword Breaker - ^ vs Sword units

Helps all B.Mages become better physical unit slayers, dealing some extra damage and getting some extra acc...and not having seemingly pointless wta2 vs other mages which will generally slaughter them anyway.

---

Footman - Gen - Sword Faire: +5mt to all swords
Knight -> Gen - Lance Faire: + lances
Guard -> Gen - Axe Faire: ^ axes
All Bow Gens Bowfaire ^ Bows

More attack power to compensate that abysmal mov of theirs?

---

Curate Promotions (and clairvoyant) - > Healtouch - +5 to all healing staves +1 to all buffs +1range on all staves

Let's be honest here, they lack offensive stats in general compared to all other healers (mainly due to how well spread out they are in the bst). So why not make them more competent healers?

---

Non-Hawk Physical Pegs - +15avd

Another honest moment here, they could use the avd boost more than any other flier, they generally have the worst stats of them all and die to bows like flies (even more so than every other flier).

---

Hawks/Dracos + 15crit

Was opting to have them trade their +15avd for crit so that their niche no longer overlaps with Troubadours and it keeps them on the offense. Note that once they get the avd drop (from losing the prev skill) they'll also die like flies to bows/magic just as the Falco/Seraph/Peregrine knights did.

---

Nomad Promotions - Bowbreaker - WTA2 vs Bow units (or stat revamp)

Still on the fence about this one, though nomads' promotions do make them potent bow unit slayers.

---

CEVMages - Tomefaire +3mt to tomes
Because we all know CEV sucks in it's current state and probably will for a while. Do you really want these units to just sit there and hope not to be killed in one hit (like every other unit in the game)? So I threw some offense in their life.

---

Warrior/Ranger/Hero/Infantry - Aggressor - +4atk on user's turn (does not work with brvs for now)
Need a reason to pick these units over a 5/5/5 or a 15crit? Here's one (I guess).

---

Agent - Lightbreaker - WTA2 vs Light units
Centurion - Animabreaker - ^ vs Anima
Leftenant - Darkbreaker - ^ vs Dark

Making them more potent magic slayers if anything, the 15hit is nice, though something is still keeping them off the battlefield.

---

CEVArmors - Rider's Bane - deal effective dmg vs mounted units

Combating their terribad Mov once again~

---

5/5/5s -> 7/7/7s

It's been discussed before and would make them at least more usable outside of gauntlets. Or honestly I was almost thinking of having something else (but would involve more classes in the game). I feel that the bonus tries to have the units evenly distribute their stats toward skl/spd/lck and unless they're lords, let's face it, it's not happening. I'd suggest a bst or promo bonus change or something to make them more viable outside of suiciding in gauntlets.

---

Overall I threw a lot more offensive skills into it, people have been saying that the game is too defense oriented, perhaps this could balance things out a bit more.

P.S. Classes/Units that weren't mentioned probably only need something as minor as a stat change or are already fine as they are currently.

[Nolan Kryptonite]

I like that idea for WTA2 mages, although personally I think they're fine vs. mages, since they usually go bulky and can be used to finish off mages anyways. >.> But they are underused, so...

Generals don't really need that IMO. Their problem is being able to get to the front lines (due to Mov and Con), as well as hit rates (due to abysmal Luc). In order for them to be less polarizing, they should just get 6 Mov. Right now their little niche is shoving. ... lol Maybe their ability could be Smite instead, since they even aren't the best at Shoving due to dat Mov.

As for curates, not that I think it's good, but they have a niche with status staves with their high innate Skl. Even though the whole status/buff thing should be reworked. Also they're the only healers with high innate Def.

For Pegs, that kind of walks on hawks' toes. It might be better to just nerf Bow effectiveness...

For Hawks/Dracos... I think you just hit them with the nerf bat twice. They're now hit and runners, without the... running. So if they don't Crit, they're dead in the water, and if you look at current Pegs, from anything. Lol.

I think Nomads are fine, they're good at what they do. Also poor other horsies who promote to use bows. :/ Inferior in unpromo AND promo now.

WTA2 melee with more offense? My lord likes that a lot with now being 58/34/28/27 on my turn. :3

I see Leftenants on the field, Centurions are lolances, and Agents have something like 8 base Def, so... yeah.

I like 5/5/5's getting 5/5/5/5 personally, because of even numbers. >.>

[Speedy - IX]

(08-02-2014, 11:38 AM)Nolan Kryptonite Wrote: I like that idea for WTA2 mages, although personally I think they're fine vs. mages, since they usually go bulky and can be used to finish off mages anyways. >.> But they are underused, so...

Going bulky also means terrible acc as well (assuming you mean DT), which is why I made the suggestion.

Generals don't really need that IMO. Their problem is being able to get to the front lines (due to Mov and Con), as well as hit rates (due to abysmal Luc). In order for them to be less polarizing, they should just get 6 Mov. Right now their little niche is shoving. ... lol Maybe their ability could be Smite instead, since they even aren't the best at Shoving due to dat Mov.

Mov is their problem, though if they were as mobile as other foot units, then they'd end up outclassing the ones that want to be physical tanks. I gave them that MT boost to try and help them do the dmg they weren't able to do on FS in the later phases of battle.

As for curates, not that I think it's good, but they have a niche with status staves with their high innate Skl. Even though the whole status/buff thing should be reworked. Also they're the only healers with high innate Def.

They get a base of 20def upon promotion (compared to a cleric's 23res)...looks like they swap skl and pow stats for some reason as well. Though we all know status staves are more dependent on pow than skl anyway (which I agree that status staves do need to be reworked). Not to mention they don't tank half as well as Cleric promotions due to their low pow...But yeah, I figured why not make them better staffers then kind of for the first reason you put out.

For Pegs, that kind of walks on hawks' toes. It might be better to just nerf Bow effectiveness...

I'm also trying to differentiate them from Champions/Infantry/Wyv. Lords/Nomad Troopers/Paladins whom all have more reason (survivability) to be used than the physical pegs right now even if Bow eff. was nerfed.

For Hawks/Dracos... I think you just hit them with the nerf bat twice. They're now hit and runners, without the... running. So if they don't Crit, they're dead in the water, and if you look at current Pegs, from anything. Lol. Also they'd get to utilize the avd bonus more thx to WTA2.

You and I both know a good tactician wouldn't rush in on an FS depending on a crit :| They have to drop the avd bonus if they were to get crit bonus...Overall I'd recommend testing this one first, this could work wonders if you ask me.

Aside from that only Hawk Archers are being used and that's only b-cuz we don't have a bow troub promotion. Troubs cover the niche better than Hawks/Dracos (AND they can heal) which is why we no longer see them.

I think Nomads are fine, they're good at what they do. Also poor other horsies who promote to use bows. :/ Inferior in unpromo AND promo now.

Other horses that promote to bows actually do great against other units with bows (...and low def). They attack with full pow, get attacked with full pow ergo they can counter at full pow. (they wreck bow units tbh). Though Nomads specifically could probably use a stat revamp so that they can actually have more than one build (same to scouts).

WTA2 melee with more offense? My lord likes that a lot with now being 58/34/28/27 on my turn. :3

Need something to be worth choosing over 5/5/5 and 15crit, so let them be able to dish out some static extra dmg~ :P

I see Leftenants on the field, Centurions are lolances, and Agents have something like 8 base Def, so... yeah.

Where!? I must have missed them in my last hundred 1v1 battles :O


I like 5/5/5's getting 5/5/5/5 personally, because of even numbers. >.>

yeah, but CEV is so bad right now ._. why not give them something they (the generics) can actually utilize?

[LeaderR Elliot]

I got it, best skills ever
hp+5
pow +2
skl+2
spd+2
luck+2
def+2
res+2

they are so easy to use anyone could use them!