Unit balance in unpromotes

[Falaflame]

(07-06-2014, 12:09 AM)leaf Wrote: Okay. Supposing that were a significant enough advantage that we would need to adjust the DK's build to match it (which I'm not convinced it is, but I won't get into that right now), we drop to the same speed as your templar and still can't be 2HKO'd by physical (this is huge) and still have 3 more mt. With your sole advantage being WTA against dark and... 7 more hit? Seriously, stop trying to argue that templar has a statistical advantage. It doesn't.

Okay, i'd love for you to point out anywhere in my post where I said Templar had a statistical advantage. Because I'm pretty sure nowhere in my post did I say Templars were better than DKs. They do pretty much the same job, destroy weapon users. Effectively, they're tied in my books, because the units they target either have Res dumped, or has minimum investment (so much as to not get ORKO'd by Verrine pursuit or aurora). Though, since light magic has more crit, they're better at pursuit sharping. But that's a different argument for a different day.

Quote:What's more, I'm not sure you understand what "for its own merit" means. When I say a unit should be usable "for its own merit," I mean that it should be able to do something that other units can't, independent of its weapon type. Supposing the weapon triangle didn't exist, and DK and templar got access to the same weapons, there would be no reason to ever pick templar over DK, because it has inherently weaker stats. The stat problem becomes compounded by the fact that different weapon types do exist, so now templar is stuck using a weapon with 2 less mt, with its only saving grace being hit and evade bonuses against dark. The problem with all of this is that while you might use a DK because it's a DK, you don't use a templar because it's a templar; you use a templar because light counters dark.

I use a templar, rather than a DK, because, maybe I already have a dark type on my team (such as a Lunar Kn) and I don't want to have a crippling weakness on my team to a certain type. I can make the same argument about a Templar. I want a DK on my team, because I already have a shimmer dodge tank Solar Kn.

As for both classes, they both have their roles. The metagame right now is pursuit. Both DK and Templar can used for this part, and they are both utilized well. DKs have full power, and templars can pull pursuit crits with divine sharps. But they can also be used as counter defense tanks. While DKs are better in this role, that doesn't necessarily mean templars are entirely useless. They still carve large holes in physicals that are designed to pursuit, because their defenses are inherently lower. 3 Mt disadvantage or not, their target still dies to the next hit by whatever unit you use. Because at a high level of play, almost no units will be ORKOable. Yes, there's a difference between the two, but more likely than not, the difference isn't so huge that it's the difference between you surviving or you dying. It's more than just "templars are just there so they have WTA against DKs".

Quote:I could do without the teambuilding lecture, thanks.

But let's see here... you mentioned wyvern fighter. I'm pretty sure I remember mentioning that wyvern fighter is a great unit in my initial analysis. Do you know why it's a great unit? Because it has stats in the right places. Most sword units don't, and obviously when I'm talking about sword units being bad, I'm not talking about the wyvern fighter.

I could do without being talked back to, thanks.

I mentioned Wyvern Fighter because it was merely an example of building teams. I never said Wyvern Fighter was a bad class. I could've done the whole Templar vs DK thing again, but that's been done to death already. Maybe I should've stuck with that.

Quote:Oh I love me some ad hominen. Yes, because I'm arguing that non-axe/dark/bow users are weak comparatively means I have no idea how to build a team. Great argument.

That wasn't my main conflicting view there. My argument was, that Axe/Dark/Bows aren't so auto-win like some people make them out to be. I have teams myself that punish that type of gameplay. Speedy/Vaike - IX has /plenty/ of teams that are made to counter that type of play. My point is, there's never a fool-proof team. And as long as RNG exists in FETO, there never will be.